EDWARD BURNS: So the book is not a memoir, and we can talk about that.

MARK BAZER: Yeah. But that happened to you.

EDWARD BURNS: But that happened to me.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: I love hot dogs. This year 4th of July was on a Thursday, and I ate hot dogs Sunday after.

MARK BAZER: Really? Not competitively?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Naw, just for the love of the game, I guess.

ELIZABETH MOEN: That's the beauty of, I think, songwriting as well, where you can talk about something but, you know, maybe romanticize it a bit. [Singing] “...wishing wishing…”

[Theme music plays]

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ALISA ROSENTHAL: Hey all what’s going on, thanks for checking out Chicago Humanities Tapes – the audio extension of the live Chicago Humanities Spring and Fall Festivals. I’m your humble podcast producer and host Alisa Rosenthal, and today, we’re bringing you a special episode: a collaboration with Chicago’s long running live talk show The Interview Show. Host and friend of the fest Mark Bazer has been bringing his love of producing and interviewing to audiences for over a decade, with events at beloved Chicagoland haunts the Hideout and Fitzgerald’s and a syndicated TV run on WTTW.

In partnership with Chicago Humanities, The Interview Show tonight brings you a great chat with filmmaker, actor, and author Edward Burns of The Brothers McMullen, She’s the One, Saving Private Ryan, and not to mention The Holiday and 27 Dresses. Plus, professional hot dog eating champ Patrick Bertoletti and music from Elizabeth Moen.

For upcoming Interview Show events head to theinterviewshowchicago.com and for more information on Chicago Humanities, you can always find us at chicagohumanities.org.

So grab a pint, set some moody bar lighting, and settle into Berwyn’s premier bar Fitzgerald’s. Mark, take it away.

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[Audience applause]

MARK BAZER: How's everyone doing now? Good, good, good. Hey, welcome to the interview show. My name is Mark Bazer, and we've got just just a great show tonight. We've got the writer director, actor Ed Burns is with us tonight. He's got a new novel out. It's delightful. It's called "The Kid from Marlboro Road." It's delightful. I loved it. We have a musician, one of my favorite musicians anywhere. We're lucky that she calls Chicago home. She's playing with her band. Elizabeth Moen is here tonight. And we also have the National Hotdog Eating Champion Men's Division, Patrick Bertoletti. But before we before before I begin, I do want to I do want to thank the Chicago Humanities for partnering with us and making this night possible. So give it up for the Chicago Humanities. For those of you who don't know, Chicago Humanities is just this great organization that brings in all these wonderful artists and writers into Chicago. And I also want to say that I am super proud of myself for for getting the national hotdog eating champion classified as the humanities. Not only only in Chicago. Only in Chicago is the hot dog considered one of the humanities. And that's why we choose to live here. Thank you so much for coming tonight, we got a great show.

My first guest is a writer, director, actor who burst onto the scene with "The Brothers McMullen," which upon viewing it when it came out, yeah, I had that reaction to it was like instantly, instantly spoke to me and spoke to a lot of people. Won the Grand Jury Award at Sundance. I showed it to my 19 year old son the other day and he was like, That's one of my favorite movies now too. So I am, now he's got a novel out. He's got a novel. It's called "A Kid from Marlboro Road." It is it is delightful. Of course, you also know him from such movies as "She's the One," "Sidewalks of New York." A recent favorite of mine is called "Summer Days, Summer Nights." The TV shows "Bridge and Tunnel" and "Public Morals." He's also been in such films as "15 Minutes," "27 Dresses," and, of course, "Saving Private Ryan." The book is a we'll get into it in the conversation, it's a semi-autobiographical story and a snapshot in time of a 12 year old boy coming to some new understandings about where he comes from, the compromises that a family makes and where he may be heading. I'm thrilled to have him here. Please welcome Ed Burns.

EDWARD BURNS: Thank you.

MARK BAZER: How are you doing? Cheers.

EDWARD BURNS: I'm doing great. Yeah, cheers man. How's it going?

MARK BAZER: I'm good.

EDWARD BURNS: Thank you for the pint wherever you are.

MARK BAZER: Yeah. People are just buying buying Ed Guinness, which he wants. Are you –

EDWARD BURNS: Who doesn't?

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: I'm doing great.

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: Thanks for having me.

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: This is very cool. Yeah.

MARK BAZER: Thanks for thanks for writing this, this this book I want to start with and we'll get into what the book's about, but it's called "The Kid from Marlboro." Your production company is called Marlboro Road Gang Productions. Take me there. Take us to Marlboro Road. What is it? And why is it held such a why does it have such a hold on you?

EDWARD BURNS: All right. So it's the block that I grew up on in a town called Valley Stream on Long Island, South Shore, Long Island, very working class community. It's also the house that I shot, "Brothers McMullen" in the house that's on the cover of the book. The reason I called my production company, the Marlboro Gang Productions, and it's kind of connected to the book, you know, in the 70s in my neighborhood, there were a lot of gangs and the guy who lived next door to me was in a gang called the Falcons, and they had a big rumble against the guys from the north side.

MARK BAZER: And they called it a rumble, like "The Outsiders."

EDWARD BURNS: It was legit. They met in the in the park with bats and guys got fucked up. Yeah, it was in the 70s in New York. I'm sure in Chicago the same stuff was going on.

MARK BAZER: Oh yeah. We rumbled.

EDWARD BURNS: So but.

MARK BAZER: I didn't.

EDWARD BURNS: At the time. I'm in the third or fourth grade.

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: So me and my friends who live on the block, we formed our gang, the Marlboro Gang. Needless to say, we didn't have any rumbles. All right, So when I.

MARK BAZER: You just made independent films.

EDWARD BURNS: I just. Not then.

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: Then when it was time to come up with a production company name, I was ah you know, that sounded pretty cool. And it was like a way to give a nod to the to my neighborhood and to the block.

MARK BAZER: So in the book, it's a boy, he's 12. It takes place over the course of a summer and he's about turn 13. He actually turns 13, I think, at the very end of the summer. And he's in an interesting place, which a lot of people at that age are where they're trying to come to, they're becoming more aware of the dynamics around them. They're becoming aware of what's going on in their family, problems in their family. They're also becoming aware that they're growing up and this boy kind of doesn't want to grow up. He wishes almost that he couldn't. And of course, he knows that's that's not possible. Talk about just when you when you were thinking about this character, like why did you why did you set it at that particular kind of precipice of life? It's a coming of age book about a kid who doesn't necessarily want to come of age.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah, yeah. You know, like with any screenplay, the novel kind of came from a bunch of different places. I'll I'll answer that question and then I can get into kind of where the where they're kind of the bigger idea.

MARK BAZER: The question you wanted to answer.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah. No, but but, you know, I for me, as a parent, I, you know, as my kids were getting older and they were sort of breaking up with us, if you will, as they hit their teen teenage years. You know, my daughter is now 20, soon to be 21. My son is 18. So when he was around 12 or 13, my wife and I could start to feel kind of like the kid in the book. You know, he he was taking that big step towards independence and his parents, that's kind of heartbreaking. But you also recognize it needs to happen. So that was going on in my life as a parent at about the time I started to think about writing what I thought was going to be a screenplay. And it's funny, I thought the screenplay was going to be called the The Marlboro Road Gang, because I thought the book, the screenplay I wanted to write at that time was going to be my you know, when I'm in film school, Truffaut's "400 Blows" was one of the films I saw that said, okay, I want to make movies like that.

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: So I've been thinking about making that coming of age film for a long time. Anyhow. Skipping to it, never got to it. Covid hits. I think I'm going to write the script. My producing partner says, I don't know when we're going to be able to get back on set due to social distancing. And a notion kind of came into my head. You know, I in high school or early college, I thought about being a novelist. I thought maybe this is the time. So with that in mind, I think I'm going to write one book. And then because of a number of things going on, it turned into this kid who was the last mama's boy on his block who makes a deal that by the end of the summer, he's going to break up with his mother. All right. But it's –

MARK BAZER: He's so sweet. He can't do it.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He can't do it. He can't do it because he right? Because he recognized he doesn't understand what depression is. Doesn't know what it is.

MARK BAZER: His mom's depressed, but his older brother's an asshole.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah, his parents are getting. They appear to be headed for divorce.

MARK BAZER: Which you don't do if you're Irish Catholic.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: Yeah. So they're not, we don't know what's going to. But that's in the back of his mind. I wanted one thing that's that's I think, honestly, my favorite part of the book is the way the character, obviously you're an adult writing this character, but the character has this innocence that he also, because he's self-consciously writing a book, is writing, and he's he's very clear that he is, he's he assumes that you, the reader, don't know any more than he knows.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: I'm going to quote one example that I absolutely loves. Don't get embarrassed. All right. So so this is a scene where the dad who's sorry, the dad who's a New York cop.

EDWARD BURNS: Yep.

MARK BAZER: To teach his the older brother a lesson puts them both in jail.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah, right. Which I should say so. The book is not a memoir, and we can talk about that.

MARK BAZER: Yeah. But that happened to you.

EDWARD BURNS: But that happened to me.

MARK BAZER: Okay. But his point that he wants to teach the older brother a lesson.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: The younger kids got to go along, too. And this is the kid, obviously, it's from the kid's perspective, but it's you writing . "Anyway. There weren't any murderers or killers in the jail that day. Just a couple of hookers, which, if you don't know, are ladies who wear almost no clothes even in the middle of winter," which is exactly what an innocent mama's 12 year old boy would say.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: And I love that part of it.

EDWARD BURNS: Awesome, cool.

MARK BAZER: The other thing I love and I want you I would love for you to talk about is just the the details and whether it's from your own life or not. For example, there's a and it becomes pivotal, actually. But the boy really notices the maple tree outside of of his bedroom.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: And I think we all anybody who grew up in a room, which I think most of us grew up in a room.

EDWARD BURNS: With a window.

MARK BAZER: With a window.

EDWARD BURNS: The window is key.

MARK BAZER: Unless you're in a closet, you kind of just have these like things that you don't notice as an adult. Like, I have no idea what's outside of my window now. I'm so in my mind.

EDWARD BURNS: And kids today probably don't, given that they're on their phones.

MARK BAZER: Oh fuck.

EDWARD BURNS: Right. Like that was the phone looking out the fucking window at the kids on the corner and the maple tree.

MARK BAZER: That was the phone. What a boring phone.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: But. So talk about the details. Was it was from your own life or not just how you how you made the kid so observant.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah. I mean, I don't know if anybody else is like this, but like, I'm 56 now and I cannot remember where I was this morning, but the details of my childhood, like I could, I can like, in my mind, open up a drawer in the kitchen and remember exactly how things were laid out.

MARK BAZER: For sure.

EDWARD BURNS: So I think I was always that kind of kid, you know, like just like I think the old man even says to him at one point, "How do you remember all these details?" when he reads a passage from the book.

MARK BAZER: That's right that's right.

EDWARD BURNS: And like, that's just who I was, which is probably why I ended up doing what I do for a living. Right? I just kind of was always like a pretty observant kid. And yeah, I can't I can't really say why or how. Like, you know, the maple tree. That is a true story. You know, he writes the poem about the tree, and that happened to me. I won, I had to do an assignment for school for I went to a Catholic school. So I do a poem about Jesus. So I wrote this poem about how the maple tree was like Jesus. Right? Because you got to figure out something when you got to do a poem about Jesus.

MARK BAZER: Is that a typical Catholic school? I'm not Catholic, you write poems about Jesus?

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah yeah yeah that was one of them. So then you.

MARK BAZER: Do math problems about Jesus?

EDWARD BURNS: Probably.

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: "So there were 12 apostles..." But anyhow, I hand it in. I don't think anything is going to, you know, I just it's a writing assignment and then I get called down to the principal's office.

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: So if you got called down to Sister Paul Francis, you assume something terrible was going to happen, and instead she says, I want to talk to you about the poem. So now I'm really nervous because maybe you shouldn't compare Jesus to a maple tree. And she says, "We had no idea that you were in such concert with the Lord," whatever that meant. "And we'd like to submit the poem to the Catholic Daughters of America Poetry Contest." Who knew that there was such a thing?

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: So to make matters worse. I win first place in Nassau County on Long Island.

MARK BAZER: What? What did the Marlboro Gang say?

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah yeah, well, I'll get to that. So a couple of terrible things happen. A, I get a trophy that's bigger than any of my basketball trophies, alright? So that goes into the closet so that the Marlboro Gang can't see it. Then, you know, like, again, 1970s working class Catholic school. If you are reading poetry, writing poetry or winning poetry contest, you're going to get your ass handed to you in the hallway at school.

MARK BAZER: You got a rumble waiting for you.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah. Yeah. It was a one sided rumble, it was basically the eighth grade is putting you in headlocks, giving your dead legs, purple nurples.

MARK BAZER: Aw man. The 70s.

EDWARD BURNS: And doing all that. So. But the good thing that came from it was my old man who, like I said, New York City cop. He says, "That's it. I don't care what you say. You're never taking the cop test. You are going to be a writer." So the opposite of what, in the movie version, the working class dad will be, "No you need the job with the benefits."

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: He was the opposite. And that sort of started me on my journey writing right.

MARK BAZER: And we'll get to that later. But.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: He did all that.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: Like he he was the one that put up the hell put up the money and.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: That's not what I would do as a father. And I think you touched on it just a second ago, but could you have written this book when you were 35? Could you read this book when you were this kid's age? Like, what are you bringing to the book that you kind of understand about? Because there is I think you've got a line in there. I think the dad says that actually that the Irish are no good at happiness. Or I'm making –

EDWARD BURNS: We have no gift. We have we have no gift for happiness.

MARK BAZER: Yeah. Yeah. And so there is this kind of like sadness that runs through the book.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: Was that was that kind of obviously true to your experience? True to growing up the people around you?

EDWARD BURNS: It's true to this day.

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: I just think, you know, it's like in the last, like, chapter of the book, he's like he's trying to figure out, like, what this summer was, you know? Is he melancholy? Is it bittersweet? And, you know, I've heard my whole life, you know, that the Irish and my mom have no gift for happiness. Right. And, you know, that doesn't mean you're sad all the time, but you're constantly lamenting the past and, you know, you're nostalgic to a fault. And I know, you know, I suffer from that. You know, the summer will end. And, you know, it's my job to kind of load up the car before we leave our house on Long Island to drive back to Manhattan. And I'm in the driveway alone, and I have no reason to be sad. It's been a great summer with just school starts, you know, in a day or two and I'm in the driveway and I'm a little emotional over just the fact that a summer is ending, you know? So, yeah, so to answer your question about like, I don't I could not have written this at 35. I couldn't have written it at 12. You know, I think like there's because like, I'm a little bit of everybody in the book, you know, like the mom definitely suffers from from from that. I suffer from it. There's a scene in the book where, like the mother is when the the two boys, you know, they're becoming one is a teenager, the other one's becoming a teenager. And they have to box up their their little kid stuff, basically their childhood right? And she's in their bedroom standing on a chair, taking something off the top shelf of their bureau. And she just starts crying right? And then she with this teddy bear, she sits down in between the two of them crying hysterically in the book. They don't know what to do when your mom is just crying, holding one of your teddy bears. And then she asks them, you know, do you remember when you got this? They don't remember. Of course that makes her upset. That never happened in my life. When I was a boy, when I was clearing out my son's room, you know, I didn't break down crying, but I definitely had a moment. Like, ah fuck like it's ending.

MARK BAZER: Yeah yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: You know? Am I allowed to curse on this?

MARK BAZER: Oh yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: I realize I'm doing – okay.

MARK BAZER: Yeah. We encourage it.

EDWARD BURNS: So. So, anyhow, so, like the kid in the book, it's it's me. It's my brother. It's some of my friends. It's a little bit of my of my kids. The mother in the book is a lot of my mom, but also a little bit of me. And the same thing with the old man.

MARK BAZER: The book begins and kind of it's bookended with the with the death of the mom's father, who was kind of a ne'er do well but a lovable ne'er do well. And in some ways, him dying represents kind of the the passing of an of the past of the old generation. And I know every generation probably thinks they're special, but you're, you know, Gen X or Gen Xers for most of us. And it seems like they're I don't know, there is something about this generation that has its memories of like the really old times through our relatives, but also obviously lives in this age of phones, you know, things like that.

EDWARD BURNS: Well, yeah, I think, you know, like I, you know, growing up in like an Irish Catholic house, a big Irish Catholic extended family, you know, like the kind of neighborhood I did. Like, there was a lot of competition to be a storyteller, right? To hold court at the dinner table and tell the funniest story. And then as we got older at weddings and funerals and bars to do the same thing, right? So that was a point of pride, you know, I mean, I've joked around with my family, like because, you know, I come from a long generation of storytellers, but I'm the first one who figured out how to get paid for it. Right? So so, you know, and even in that opening scene at his grandfather's wake, you know, that is that entire scene is complete fiction. I did not go to my my grandfather's Pop McKenna, the guy in the book is Pop McSweeney. But everything about his history, you know, my my grandparents came from Ireland in the 30s. My mother's two older brothers were born in Ireland. She was born here in the Bronx, as was her younger brother. Her mother died shortly thereafter. So Pop McKenna, uneducated, no job, no wife, four kids under the age of six, put the four of them in an orphanage, went back to Ireland to find a new wife. Couldn't find a new wife. My mom didn't give me the details of how long he was gone, but she did not like to talk about the orphanage. She was there for a while.

MARK BAZER: Oh my word.

EDWARD BURNS: He finally comes back without a wife, gets the kids out of the orphanage. But, you know, one of the stories in the book is, you know, like what, you know, I mean, she she adored her father, even though, you know, you said he was a ne'er do well. He was he was like the the happy singing drunk who, as my dad said, might periodically fall down the stairs right?

MARK BAZER: But that's a better drunk than the alternative.

EDWARD BURNS: Which was my father's father. My grandfather, who was never happy and never sung or laughed. But he might throw you down the stairs. So. So to the point of like, those like. So growing up in a house like this, all of these stories have been retold so many times. Right? That to your point about the Gen-X thing, and are we kind of connected to that? They told a lot of stories. And, you know, like as a kid who kind of like liked hearing stories, I then have retold them my whole life, and now versions of them have shown up in the book.

MARK BAZER: How do you do nostalgia without being sappy?

EDWARD BURNS: You know, I don't know. Like, I mean, like, maybe there are moments in the book where it's sappy, you know, like, I just I think, like instinctually, you kind of know how not to be sappy, but I'm sure there's some people might read it and be like, Burns is a freaking sap, you know?

MARK BAZER: Well, well part of it might be that it's the characters themselves who are being nostalgic, which lends a certain I don't know I don't know what it lends, but it lends something.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah. I mean, yeah, I. My thing was like, I didn't care to be truthful, right? Like, that wasn't, you know, that wasn't my intent as far as, like, the, the, the facts and the stories. And did it actually happen this way? Because do we remember the past, the way it actually happened? And again, these are stories that have been retold so many times. And I should tell why the book morphs so differently from, you know, like originally I mentioned the "400 Blows" and the Marlboro Gang. I really thought that summer I was going to write, you know, basically, you know, because Gen-Xers right? Our parents all worked and like, you know, in the summer when you didn't have school, like my parents left the house at 7:30. Me and my friends, we never saw another adult until 6:30 at night when it's time for dinner. There's no summer camp or anything like that. We got on our bikes and figured shit out, you know, and those were great summers. So I was like, there's a movie in those great summers. My thinking was alright it's "Stand by Me" without the dead body. Alright? So that's the book I start writing, but it's Covid. My parents are trapped in Florida. They can't get home to Long Island. So I'm talking to them every day on the phone. And after a week of, "Alright so, you know, what did you guys watch on Netflix? Why did you make for dinner?" I started and my mom was not well, so I just started asking her to kind of cheer up like a different question about her life. Like, what do you remember about the day you graduated high school? You know, What do you remember about taking the the train with Pop McKenna, you know, down from the Bronx into Manhattan? What do you remember on the day when my dad said he was going to take the cop test? So what am, and my mom again, storyteller, once I would ask her these questions, I knew she would, she could disappear for an hour, right? And she could just go off and tell me the stories and laugh and relive the past. So I'm writing the Marlboro Road Gang novel while talking to my mom. And based on what the book is about now, you can see my mother's stories start working themselves into the book, and at a certain point I was like it then becomes a love letter to my mom, to her experiences as a kid, to what it was like for all families like that, you know, from Ireland that came to America in the 30s. And then my dad's side came in the 1880s with no money, drunks and trying to figure shit out. And, you know, within a generation we did pretty good.

MARK BAZER: That's beautiful, that's beautiful.

EDWARD BURNS: You know? You almost got me there, I felt a little bit emotional.

MARK BAZER: Can we talk a little bit about your films?

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah, sure.

MARK BAZER: The beginning of "Brothers McMullen" happens, there's this moment it's in the if people remember, it's at a graveyard. The mom says, I'm out of here. I'm going to find my my, back to back to Ireland, where my true love was, I fucked up. And I have you. But I'm glad I have you, my sons. There's only one son there at the moment. And. But she warns them. She's like. Don't settle for anything less than true love.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: Do you start and, you know, you're mentioned asking questions of your mom. Do you start a project with a story or do you start with a question?

EDWARD BURNS: Well, that's a good question.

MARK BAZER: Finally.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah. Well done. You know, like no two stories or screenplays or the book really start from one place with me. You know, it's kind of like, you know, now on my phone, but it used to be notebooks, there's just, like, lists of: good idea for a story, great idea for a scene. So trying to think like, "McMullen"'s a weird one like "McMullen" there was no master plan other than I wanted to make a feature film because at that time in the early 90s, you know, when I, when I got out of film school, you know, the first film I saw out of films, one of the first films I saw at a film school in the theater was "Reservoir Dogs." Right. '91. So, yeah, of course, like everyone else, I'm like at a film school. Want to break into the business. So what do you do? You write your first of three "Reservoir Dog" rip off scripts, all right? And you send those out to Hollywood and try and get an agent. And nobody seemed interested in my version of his work. So after about two years or three years of that, you started to also see I don't know if anybody remembers Hal Hartley from the 90s, but there was a lot of filmmaker's, Nick Gomez made a great movie called "Laws of Gravity." There were these movies that were being made for like $25,000, $35,000 going to film festivals, but then being picked up for distribution, playing in theaters. And then those filmmakers were getting five and six and $7 million to make their next film. Like that was the way to break into the business. So I was like, okay, that's what I'm going to do. So I just started to like more from a practical standpoint. I was like, if I'm going to make a movie for $25,000, I know I need to get every location for free. So I was like, alright, the house I grew up in. Alright. We'll start with that.

MARK BAZER: That's the central house, right?

EDWARD BURNS: That's that's the house right in my parents' house. And like we literally shot every inch of that house, the backyard, the front stoop, the side stoop, the basement, the attic, everything. Then at the time, I was a production assistant at New York satellite office of Entertainment Tonight. And there was like a news crew, like a three man crew. We would go out, but the office was on Columbus Circle across from Central Park. So a lot of times if we had an interview, we would go into Central Park. And I noticed like we never had permits to shoot there, anywhere you pointed the camera look beautiful. So I was like, okay, so I got a house and then I will use every park in New York City where I know I could shoot for free and I'll shoot during the day when I don't need to light it as a way to do it cheap. So have you rewatched the film all those brothers, they never go on a date to a restaurant, a bar, the movies. They're in a park talking about a meal they had or a movie they saw. You know. So that's how I kind of I put that together. Then for the scripts and then I was like, well, I got the house. The other thing that was happening, you know, speaking of Gen-Xers, I can remember like there was never I never saw a film that I felt the guys my age sounded the way me and my friend spoke. So and in film school, I was pretty good at writing dialog, so I was just like, I can't do the Tarantino thing. I'm just going to do like guys bullshitting over beers. That was kind of the premise and make it sound honest. And and then from there, the story just kind of, you know, took off. So no grand ambition other than how do you make a movie for $25,000. So.

MARK BAZER: And then the next film you get some more money for and I want to ask just a particular question. So I don't know if you know this, but John Mahoney, a lot of people here are from Oak Park. It's right across the street. John Mahoney lived in Oak Park for years and years. I never just say like, give me give me a story, but. Give me a John Mahoney story. Seemed like he I interviewed him once and he was the sweetest guy.

EDWARD BURNS: So after "Brothers McMullen," you know, we, you know, make that movie for no money, like goes to Sundance, wins, comes out in theaters. But you're still not convinced that you're a real filmmaker. And I made a movie in 12 days over the course of eight months in the house I grew up in, I didn't feel like the movie business. You know what I mean? So and it's funny, the screenplay for She's the One, the second film. I've never written a script that quickly took me two weeks to write it because I was told by a producer that I met as we were as we were getting before we're taking "McMullen" to Sundance, two weeks out, he goes, Do you have another screenplay? I said, No, because I knew I wasn't going to present one of the Tarantino rip off scripts.

MARK BAZER: Sure.

EDWARD BURNS: He goes, you need to have a script that because during the two weeks you're Sundance, you'll never be hotter than you are at that moment. You can get that script made. So just make sure you have something. So when we made "McMullen," because I had spent a year prior to getting it into Sundance, sending it out to every distribution company, agent, manager, film festival, l didn't get in anywhere for a solid year. And if we have time afterwards, I'll tell you, the Sundance story it's a good story, but anyhow I don't think we're going to sell "McMullen." So I'm like, alright, I'm just going to write a funnier version of "Brothers McMullen" and I'll swap out the oldest brother for a dad.

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

EDWARD BURNS: Right? So I think McMullen would be the calling card. Can you make a movie like the "She's the One" script? Yes. Here's "McMullen." That was sort of how I was thinking, but then both happened. So to John Mahoney: so one of the, you know Fox Searchlight was the company that was making the second film and you know, one of the first phone call, incoming phone calls when the script is done and we go out before we get Jennifer Aniston and Cameron Diaz, it's just me and Mike McGlone. John Mahoney is like agents call and said he's read the script and he you know, he loved "Brothers McMullen" and he'd love to play the part. And again, I'm sort of like, Are you kidding me? Like John Mahoney, like, really like John Mahoney wants to be in our movie? Doesn't he know I don't know what I'm doing? You know what I mean? I've got 12 days of experience directing. You know. And then he was the absolute greatest, sweetest guy. I mean, really, again, there were days on set where I didn't know what I was doing and John was able to be like that you know, he was the the, you know, the senior actor on set. So, you know, he's like, No, Eddie, it's cool. Don't worry. Maybe just try this or do that. And that was kind of it. He kind of was like a little bit of a mentor for me, you know?

MARK BAZER: Speaking of that, it makes me reminds me you have another book called "Independent Ed" which traces your and, you know, your filmography and the work up to like, what, 2016, 2015 or so. And you talk about how when you were on "Saving Private Ryan," watching Spielberg, you learned that you don't always have to be directing that there, that you have to know when to direct. But I don't want to ask that question. I just I want to ask if you can tell the story about the first time you had to say lines in "Saving Private Ryan."

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: And Tom Hanks is next to you.

EDWARD BURNS: Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Alright. So again, this goes back to my lack of experience and my lack of confidence, right? So I've only acted in three movies prior to "Saving Private Ryan," and they're my films, so I've never spoken a line of dialog that I didn't write. And so we've we did boot camp on "Private Ryan," which is great. So we all got very tight and you know love Tom and was, you know, felt very comfortable hanging with Tom Hanks. On day one, less comfortable acting opposite Tom Hanks. So it's a scene that I'm going to tell you. Why I don't know if this is why I got cut out of the film, but I assume so. It's maybe the second scene we shoot in the film and it's just it's a walk and talk where me and Hanks are walking through like a field and the rest of the guys are behind us again, I can't remember what the dialog was. But it wasn't much. I mean, it was like three lines and, you know, you're kind of there and you've got the uniform on. I've got my bag. And you look across is a long line shot, like a, you know, 50 yards, 50ft a track over there. And there's Steven Spielberg and he says, "Action." And I'm just sort of like. Like it. Just like it all just kind of hit me in that moment. Like, what are you doing here? This is madness. Alright? And then, you know, I we on "action," we start walking, then I turn and I look, and it's Tom friggin Hanks. And I try to speak, and I can just like you can hear I can hear my voice is shaking and cracking ok. "Yup! Alright, let's take it back to one!" 3 or 4 more takes of this not being able to just get the words out without sounding like a kid reading in front of the nuns you know, back in the sixth grade. Tom then pulled me aside and he was just like, Eddie, just chill out, man. Like, you got this. Like, I've seen your work. You can act. Forget about everything we're doing here. Like, just lock in and focus. And fortunately, you know, we got through the day and through the scene, and then moving forward, I felt more comfortable. But when I did see the finished film, I did notice that scene was cut. So maybe I didn't chill out enough in time.

MARK BAZER: I want to just end with with one last question, which is, is, you know, you're very in this other book, "Independent Ed," you're very blunt. And it's at the very beginning of the book in fact, you say, you know, I made these two movies and then all of a sudden I was the hottest thing in Hollywood. And then all of a sudden, I couldn't make a film. And yet I don't know how many it is now you've made 16, 15, 16 films, two television shows. And what is so admirable, when I was just reading the book, it was like, you just want to make the movies. And you figured out two things if I can. You figured out how to make movies on what you call micro budgets, or other people call micro budgets. But you also somehow were ahead of the distribution curve at many different steps of the way. Like you had the first film that was released exclusively on iTunes, for example. So I just want to end with just talk about how you've been able to just make a career doing what you want to do.

EDWARD BURNS: It's another story of my dad. When I was writing those early screenplays and then after we made "Brothers McMullen," I was sending it out and I couldn't get anywhere. And I was person in moaning about the state of the business, right? And complaining. And he says, Look, you know, I guarantee you there's someone else out there who's doing the same thing. And instead of complaining to his father, he's writing his next screenplay today, he's outworking you. Alright? So, like, you just need to outwork everyone else. And that's been my thing. Like, I know I am not the most talented, but I know I am the most tireless. Like, I will outwork anyone, I write every day. I'll commit to the five hours of just grinding through bad scenes to get through the one good scene that ends up being in the film. And you do that just because you love it, you know? And I got lucky. Like I. I love to sit down and write like, that's why, you know, writing the book, I don't want to say it wasn't hard because it was hard, but it was good hard work. And that's why, like, I'm almost done with the second book. So I see as I see it as a trilogy.

MARK BAZER: Oh really? Oh that's good. Yeah.

You know, so, you know, anyhow

MARK BAZER: You gotta come back for that one.

EDWARD BURNS: We gotta come back. No this is great. I love this.

MARK BAZER: Will you sign books after?

EDWARD BURNS: Absolutely. Yeah. And then also I'll take pictures. Also, if anybody has any other memorabilia. Like when I was in Boston, there was two guys that had, like World War II helmets. And signed those with quotes that I don't remember my character saying in "Private Ryan." But I have to admit, that I was like, shit, that's pretty cool. I want one of those.

MARK BAZER: Ed Burns, everyone.

EDWARD BURNS: Thank you, guys. Cheers. Thank you, that was fun!

[Audience applause]

MARK BAZER: All right. My next guest is the reigning Nathan's Hot Dog eating contest champion men's division. He took home his first Mustard Belt after eating 59 hot dogs and buns in ten minutes. That was six hot dogs and buns ahead of the next best competitive eater. It's not every day we have a world champion on the show. Please welcome Chicago's own Patrick Bertoletti.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: How are you?

MARK BAZER: My God. Yeah. I mean, this is. This is super heavy.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: I know.

MARK BAZER: I'm going to hurt tomorrow. All right? How are you? Congratulations.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Airport security loves when I travel.

MARK BAZER: What do they do?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: They're confused. Just the last time they asked me if I was a wrestler. I was like, yeah, well, we're just going to go with it.

MARK BAZER: I wrestle hot dogs. What what was the what's the let's just get into the Nathan's on July 4th. What was the what's the scene like? Was it everything you hoped for? Did you like the other competitors? Did you know that you had it in the bag? Just take us there.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Well.

MARK BAZER: Coney Island.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Yeah Coney Island. I think I've done the hot dog eating contest like, I don't know, 10 or 12 times. I got second place a few times. Third place mostly.

MARK BAZER: Yeah.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: So always a bridesmaid, never the bride. And I kind of knew Joey Chestnut wasn't going to be there this year, so.

MARK BAZER: 'Cause he got banned, right?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Yeah, he had some contract issues, but I'm really good friends with him, so. Yeah. Contract issues.

MARK BAZER: Oh you're friends with Joey, is he a good guy?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Yeah, he's a good guy.

MARK BAZER: Oh really? Because in the Netflix special, he's. Did you see the Netflix special?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: I did, yeah.

MARK BAZER: Some of those copy actually or whatever like, he seems like he's not all smiles.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: He's very serious.

MARK BAZER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: So she still hates him, by the way.

MARK BAZER: Yeah, they. They seem to hate each other.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Yeah, cause she hates Joey. I don't think Joey really cares, but.

MARK BAZER: Yeah. Yeah, well, that's a champion. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about. I want to, like. All right, let's just get into. Let's just get into growing up. Like, a lot of, you know, dads that go out in the backyard, they throw the baseball around. Like, did your dad go out and like, competitive eat with you?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: No, but he could. He's actually here tonight. Yeah? Yeah. Watch your watch your fingers in front of this guy. No, I mean, a throwback to the Irish stuff. I think the youngest of five you're always looking for attention, so I'm the youngest of five. And.

MARK BAZER: Oh wow.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: I wasn't great at sports, and I always knew I could eat a lot. So that was kind of my way to differentiate myself. And I don't know that eating is a sport, but we'll just pretend for tonight.

MARK BAZER: Yeah, I think it is. You you have the belt.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Yeah, that's true.

MARK BAZER: Yeah. What is there like you see, I mean, you're not, you're not small, but you're also not big. You're not. And then you. Kobayashi's not big. Joey Chestnut's a little bigger. Like, what? Is there like a is it. What is it? What is going on?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: A few screws loose, maybe.

MARK BAZER: You know, other than that.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: I mean, the best eaters start with a love of food. And so that's just where it started. I love food. Joey loves food. And just to have that above average appetite, just growing up, not having to chew your food and then. The first event I did, I was so sick after –

MARK BAZER: So you didn't chew your food you you –

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: I never I still don't have to chew my food. It's kind of a –

MARK BAZER: Really?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: It's a liability.

MARK BAZER: But you enjoy it?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: I do enjoy it as well. Yes.

MARK BAZER: You still taste it?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: I do, Yeah. So.

MARK BAZER: Okay. Like if you went if if you went to like a, I don't know, like a really fancy.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Alinea.

MARK BAZER: Yeah Alinea.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: Would you choose your food?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Yeah, of course.

MARK BAZER: Okay.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Well I'm also a chef, so.

MARK BAZER: Oh you are?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Yeah. I know it. It doesn't make sense.

MARK BAZER: No, nothing. Not a lot. Nothing about that situation Makes sense. Yeah, but I think it's really cool. Like, I mean, you. It's just like anything you put your. You got to work at it. It's not like you show up and eat 59 hotdogs in ten minutes. Like you got to put in the training.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Yeah. This, this time around it took, I think it was six months and I ate like. Like over 1300 hot dogs practicing. So I still have acne that I thought I was done with acne, but it came back.

MARK BAZER: Wow.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: Do you like. Do you like hot dogs?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: I love hot dogs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think this year 4th of July was on a Thursday, and I ate hot dogs Sunday after, so.

MARK BAZER: Really? Not competitively?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: No, I just.

MARK BAZER: Just had it.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Just for the love of the game, I guess.

MARK BAZER: Yeah. Were you surprised when you won or.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: I was. I just it still doesn't seem real because I did it for so long and. Yeah. So I'm not used to stuff working out, like setting a goal and accomplishing it. So a it still feels –

MARK BAZER: Me neither!

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Actually still feels like the bottom is going to drop out. But yeah, I just feel blessed and like I'm. Yeah, I still yeah, it was always Joey's thing and he just wasn't there. And it's not my, you know.

MARK BAZER: That just he's done. Joey's done. Don't sweat, Joey. He's done.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Well you're from Boston, you probably put ketchup on your hot dog right?

MARK BAZER: Not anymore, not anymore.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: You're not going to admit to it here? Yeah, I wouldn't either.

MARK BAZER: No, I tell you, you know, this is embarrassing, but when I was growing up, I didn't put anything on my hotdogs. I was a very fussy eater, but I. So I wouldn't put anything on it. But now I'm all in on the Chicago dog. I think it's one of the most beautiful things in the world. Did you watch the Nathan's Lemonade chugging contest?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: I did.

MARK BAZER: Did you see that kid who puked for like three minutes afterwards?

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Yeah. We weren't sure if he did it on purpose, but I guess it was really hot that day and he wasn't feeling good. And then he became I guess.

MARK BAZER: What do you mean it was hot it was July 4th.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: It was just like I wanted to give the crowd a show. And then I think the more they cheer, the more and encourage him. And I just didn't even drink that much lemonade. I don't know where all that kept coming out of him. You know, that was like the most impressive part.

MARK BAZER: Chicago Humanities partnership right here.

PATRICK BERTOLETTI: Yeah.

MARK BAZER: Patrick Bertoletti!

[Audience applause]

MARK BAZER: My final guest is, I saw her perform not too long ago at The Hideout, which was the show's other home, and I had such a wonderful time. Her most recent studio album is here. It's called Wherever You Aren't. She also has a new seven inch out. I think they're pressing it right now, but you can order it on Bandcamp. Please welcome, Elizabeth Moen.

[Audience applause]

[The band tunes up]

ELIZABETH MOEN: Alright. This song I actually just released. It's on a seven inch. That was mentioned earlier. It's called Purple Flowers. Has anyone here ever been to the Rainbo? The song is about the first time I went to the Rainbo and I had a I walked in and was, like, struck, just, like, shocked by just how cute I thought everybody was. And so I left. I didn't say a word, and I left. But that's what the song is about. It's also about those pretty little flowers in the medians here and like, the big streets.

ELIZABETH MOEN: [Singing] Purple flowers trapped in the median. Swaying as a city bus buzzes by. In my head and we're slow motion kissing, walking in the dark wishing wishing. Lie's beginning beginning to end. Middle of the night hand tapping on the fences. In my head we're slow motion kissing. Purple flowers dancing in my pocket. I don't know but I want to. Sometimes I get so quiet. I'm not talking to you but when I do I'll say something when I see you again. Purple flowers outside the Rainbo. For a Sunday the place sure is buzzing. In my head we're slow motion dancing, coupled up lovers singing singing. Show's beginning beginning to end middle of the room toes tapping to the music. In my head we're slow motion kissing. Turn around and you're right there listening. I don't know you but I want to. Sometimes I get so quiet. I'm not talking to you. But when I do, I'll say something if I see you again. Again. Again. Again. Again. Again. Again. Again. How ya doin' tonight? How you doin' tonight? How you doin' tonight? How ya doin' tonight? How ya doin' tonight? Skip the simple talk. Tell me something real about you. For every secret that you got pretty sure I have one too. I've wanted to baby I wanted you. Purple flowers in my pockets. Purple flowers in my pockets.

[Audience applause]

ELIZABETH MOEN: Thank you. Thank you so much to Gus, Wes, and Tristan, my amazing band mates. Thank you to Mike on sound. Thank you to my amazing manager Georgia for being here with us tonight. Yeah, this is this is a gdb: a goddamn blast. A-goodbye!

[Audience applause]

MARK BAZER: Elizabeth Moen! Thank you so much for coming tonight. Thank you.

[Audience applause]

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ALISA ROSENTHAL: That was The Interview Show with Mark Bazer, featuring Edward Burns, Patrick Bertoletti, and Elizabeth Moen, recorded live at Fitzgerald’s in Berwyn, IL. For links to Edward Burns’ “A Kid From Marlboro Road,” Patrick Bertoletti’s Instagram, and Elizabeth’s Moen music, head to the show notes or chicagohumanities.org.

Chicago Humanities Tapes is produced and hosted by me, Alisa Rosenthal, with help from the team at Chicago Humanities who are producing these live events and making them sound fantastic. Shout out to the staff at Fitzgerald’s for their hard work on tonight’s episode. We always appreciate you spending your time with us, and if you like what you hear, hit the subscribe button so you’ll be the first to know about new episodes, leave a rating and review, and share your favorite program with your favorite people. We’ll be back in two weeks with a brand new episode for you, but in the meantime, stay human.

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